UTM - Posted - 02/24/2024:  15:53:00

Alex;

If you feel that my recent contribution lacked any meaningful fuel to add to the fire, I'm truly sorry, but I can assure you that was my intention. Perspective isn't everyones cup of tea.

Mark Douglas - Posted - 02/24/2024:  16:41:11

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alex Z

There was no information, no light, in the posting.  There were unsupported allegations, innuendo, and personal opinion.

Page 6.  

---

Well....sir.....quite frankly that's a matter of interpretation.

I take UTM at his word since:

1. No one can prove he has bias.

2. It does not seem he has a stake in the outcome.

3. The wording does not suggest he has any hostile or malevolent intent towards TN.

If UTM's intent was to come on here and drag TN's name through the mud....he certainly could have done a much better job of it.

Allegations?

Innuendo?    

LOL.... pretty tame stuff overall. If UTM really wanted to rip into TN....If he really wanted to denigrate, sully or defame TN's character... sure came up short here!

Edited by - Mark Douglas on 02/24/2024 16:43:40

Mark Douglas - Posted - 02/24/2024:  17:48:38

quote:

---

Originally posted by UTM

First, some context; Tom and I decided several years ago that we were not well suited to be "friends" after he really bested me in a deal. The details don't matter at this point. My Dad always said " if you get schnideled, you deserve it". 

---

Well....UTM,

I kind of disagree.

No one deserves to be taken advantage of.

Especially by an unscrupulous individual who is willing to run roughshod over others in.order to feather his own nest. Just because many of today's business men are willing and able to do that.... doesn't make it right!

The fact that you were a "friend" before being "bested" speaks volumes about this individual!

Edited by - Mark Douglas on 02/24/2024 17:50:20

UTM - Posted - 02/24/2024:  18:58:46

Mark;

First, thank you for your comments regarding Alex's take on my earlier post. I appreciate it.

However, your most recent post is a strong indication to me that I have failed to "sell" the need for seeking perspective. You have made me regret my well intentioned effort and taught me a lesson that I will long remember. Thank you for that.

Alex Z - Posted - 02/24/2024:  19:41:46

Thanks, UTM.  I see what you were doing now.

Perspective is certainly what is needed.   Yet in this thread just about everything non-factual ends up being interpreted as "fact" and used as fuel for some kind of fire.

You're good.  Peace, brother.

Bill Rogers - Posted - 02/24/2024:  22:56:04

The problem, of course, is that we don’t know what is fact. I tend to think we have different viewpoints from people with different perspectives of, and experiences with Tom Nechville and Nechville Banjos. Our posters are not under oath, but I doubt that anything in this thread has been deliberate falsehood. I perceive certain things from what I’ve read, and others have read the same material and perceived differently. So it goes. I am pleased to note, that though there are disagreements, there has been no name-calling and posters seem to accept that they might disagree without fighting. And I’m sure that all await the outcome, whether it be sooner or later.

Mark Douglas - Posted - 02/25/2024:  01:44:43

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bill Rogers

The problem, of course, is that we don’t know what is fact. I tend to think we have different viewpoints from people with different perspectives of, and experiences with Tom Nechville 

---

What I find interesting....is that we DO have a viewpoint from the "Nechville Six" but no actual viewpoint from Mr. Nechville or even someone who claims to know him on a personal level.

What is lacking is at least one individual coming forward to say (more or less):

"I have personally known TN for many years. And I can assure you that he is a moral, upright, decent human being who has always been fair, equitable and principled with those who work for and work under him."

If we can hear from just that "one guy" who will say that....then we would have a credible viewpoint from that perspective. Certainly, out of all the folks on this forum there must be ONE member who can say we've got it wrong....and that TN is a stand up guy and a wonderful human being. Where is that argument? Where is that person???

UTM - Posted - 02/25/2024:  02:52:03

I'm often reminded of a trip my wife and took to see the Grand Teton mountains in Western Wyoming. After spending several days touring that area I was most impressed by the fact that if you were to walked the highway from Moran Junction to Jackson Hole and stopped every 50 feet to take a look West at the mountains, the view would seem to change quite dramatically each time.

It was such a pleasant experience that we agreed to never go back.

As for Alex, I really think I may have won you over. Well, maybe not completely.

As for the Moderators, thanks very much for indulging us what is truly an endangered freedom.

UTM - Posted - 02/25/2024:  04:29:51

I'm having a hard time disconnecting from this.

While I was composing my most recent and supposedly final thoughts on this topic, Mark was busy, yet again, churning feverishly attempting to make cream from tap water.

Mark, what do you think entitles you to suspend civilty for what ever your purpose is. Why do you feel that you can simply indict someone without any evidence beyond hearsay. You shotgun questions with the intention of demonizing a man's entire career based on a few words from a single partisan whose opinions have been filtered thru the media. That certainly seems to be a sign of times.

If Tom was the demon you are describing the market would have washed him away in a heartbeat. The history of contemporary banjo builders is littered with the corpses of sharpys. You dimish yourself with your accusations directed at a builder with a decades long reputation while at the same time your beating the brush begging for a genuine victim to step forward. That not cool!

In closing , fair is fair, so I'll shotgun you a few questions. While you work on this, I'll be over in the corner regretting almost every moment that I have obviously wasted "tilting at this particulir windmill".

How do you know Tom?
Have you ever talked to Tom?
Could you pick Tom out of a line-up?
Have you ever been in the same room with Tom?
Have you ever worked in his shop?
Do you personally know anyone that has worked for Tom?
Have you personally spoken directly with any of the Neckville 6?
Have you ever been in his Shop?
Have you ever purchased one of Tom's products (new or used)?
Were you personally been disappointed with any of Tom's products?
Do you know of anyone in your circle of friends that have been disappointed by any of Tom's products or services?
Do you have personal knowledge of Tom's current net worth?
Do you know personal knowledge of the net worth of any of his employees?
Do you know if any of them have capital at risk in Tom's business?
Do you have personal knowledge that Tom has violated and State or Federal laws?
Do you know if any of Tom's employees were not paid an agreed upon wage?
Considering that Tom's company has built thousands of banjos, how many complaints have you personally heard of in the media? (Bearing in mind that a single complaint would represent an absolutely microscopic percentage of his total sales.)

It would be easy to continue but most people have gotten my point long ago. There is no need to fill out a score card, I'm suspicious that nobody cares. Including me!

Texasbanjo - Posted - 02/25/2024:  04:41:37

Okay, we're getting a little snarky with our posts. Let's keep it civil, please.

Mark Douglas - Posted - 02/25/2024:  04:44:11

quote:

---

Originally posted by UTM

I'm having a hard time disconnecting from this.



While I was composing my most recent and supposedly final thoughts on this topic, Mark was busy, yet again, churning feverishly attempting to make cream from tap water.



Mark, what do you think entitles you to suspend civilty for what ever your purpose is. Why do you feel that you can simply indict someone without any evidence beyond hearsay. You shotgun questions with the intention of demonizing a man's entire career based on a few words from a single partisan whose opinions have been filtered thru the media. That certainly seems to be a sign of times.



If Tom was the demon you are describing the market would have washed him away in a heartbeat. The history of contemporary banjo builders is littered with the corpses of sharpys. You dimish yourself with your accusations directed at a builder with a decades long reputation while at the same time your beating the brush begging for a genuine victim to step forward. That not cool!



In closing , fair is fair, so I'll shotgun you a few questions. While you work on this, I'll be over in the corner regretting almost every moment that I have obviously wasted "tilting at this particulir windmill".



How do you know Tom?

Have you ever talked to Tom?

Could you pick Tom out of a line-up?

Have you ever been in the same room with Tom?

Have you ever worked in his shop?

Do you personally know anyone that has worked for Tom?

Have you personally spoken directly with any of the Neckville 6?

Have you ever been in his Shop?

Have you ever purchased one of Tom's products (new or used)?

Were you personally been disappointed with any of Tom's products?

Do you know of anyone in your circle of friends that have been disappointed by any of Tom's products or services?

Do you have personal knowledge of Tom's current net worth?

Do you know personal knowledge of the net worth of any of his employees?

Do you know if any of them have capital at risk in Tom's business?

Do you have personal knowledge that Tom has violated and State or Federal laws?

Do you know if any of Tom's employees were not paid an agreed upon wage?

Considering that Tom's company has built thousands of banjos, how many complaints have you personally heard of in the media? (Bearing in mind that a single complaint would represent an absolutely microscopic percentage of his total sales.)



It would be easy to continue but most people have gotten my point long ago. There is no need to fill out a score card, I'm suspicious that nobody cares. Including me!

---

Hey UTM

Can I cry uncle and say.....  You got me!

LOL.....LOL....

Yes, I have owned one of these banjos.

Things I liked and things I didn't like. Not really my cup of tea since I like Stelling banjos!

I no longer play Nechville banjos.

Sounds like you still have a soft spot in your heart for Nechville and Nechville banjos!

I will respect that.

Can we join in together and sing......

Kum Bah Yah

Mark Douglas - Posted - 02/25/2024:  04:48:03

quote:

---

Originally posted by Texasbanjo

Okay, we're getting a little snarky with our posts. Let's keep it civil, please.

---

Wow...Sherry,

You're up this early on a Sunday morning?

Now that's impressive!

FYI:  I get up at 5 am almost every morning and am checking out the Hangout shortly thereafter.  

LOL...

Edited by - Texasbanjo on 02/25/2024 08:09:52

UTM - Posted - 02/25/2024:  08:33:07

Sherry, thank you for your comments. You are right.

Mark, with all due respect, your score on the questionaire wasn't much of a surprise. As for the LOLs they were a predictable response. As far as singing Kum Bah Yah, I'll have to pass again with all due respect.

I will respectfully agree that your prediction that 100 years from now a Stelling will be sitting by a sign in a museum somewhere will come true. Further, I will predict that it will be surrounded by plenty of other USA built high quality brands from this era; yes, including a Nechville (quite possibly one of mine).

gottasmilealot - Posted - 02/25/2024:  09:02:01

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mark Douglas

quote:

---

Originally posted by UTM

First, some context; Tom and I decided several years ago that we were not well suited to be "friends" after he really bested me in a deal. The details don't matter at this point. My Dad always said " if you get schnideled, you deserve it". 

---

If you don't like your arrangement with any employer or feel you are being taken advantage of, don't work there.  If my employees pulled this crap after I gave them employment for many years and then tried to deny me my right to move or live my life as desired, I would dissolve the company.  Do these workers think they will be hired by another employer after doing this?  They weren't taken advantage of, they worked there on their own free will knowing the terms of their employment and were free to not work there if they were no longer agreeable to the conditions or terms. It's a wonder small businesses can survive as it is.

Well....UTM,

I kind of disagree.

No one deserves to be taken advantage of.

Especially by an unscrupulous individual who is willing to run roughshod over others in.order to feather his own nest. Just because many of today's business men are willing and able to do that.... doesn't make it right!

The fact that you were a "friend" before being "bested" speaks volumes about this individual!

 

 

 

---

Mark Douglas - Posted - 02/25/2024:  09:35:44

quote:

---

Originally posted by UTM

Mark, with all due respect, your score on the questionaire wasn't much of a surprise. As for the LOLs they were a predictable response. As far as singing Kum Bah Yah, I'll have to pass again with all due respect.

 

---

I consider the questionnaire a farce!

A comical, whimsical attempt to play one upmanship here on the forum. Asking questions you knew advance I could not answer... I hope you received a degree of satisfaction. Kind of like the classic example of psychology 101 putting someone in a double bind and no matter how they answer the interrogator is ready to pounce. You were adamant about making your point and I hope you feel better.

You seem to be good at predicting responses.

Too bad you weren't there at the beginning of this thread as you could have saved everyone a lot of time with your omniscient talents.

Good luck with your collection of Nechville banjos. They will always be an interesting experiment and history will judge them as such. Too bad they will never be held up as a world-class, premier instrument!

Edited by - Mark Douglas on 02/25/2024 09:39:30

airport-security - Posted - 02/25/2024:  10:25:59

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mark Douglas

Good luck with your collection of Nechville banjos. They will always be an interesting experiment and history will judge them as such. Too bad they will never be held up as a world-class, premier instrument!

---

Aw, man. I am a proud owner of a Nechville. Not world class? What would be considered such, if not a Gibson? Is Huber world class? Deering? Anyone ever A/B'd a Huber and a more classic Nechville?

Bill Rogers - Posted - 02/25/2024:  11:13:57

Journalists are often criticized for “not being objective” and presenting both sides of a controversial story. This thread illustrates the. Most frequent cause of those criticisms: the failure of one side of the issue to participate in. The debate (or even have its side clearly presented). By default, the unrepresented side of the issue appears as a loser one way or another—and usually by their choice. Neither of the Nechville websites appears to speak to the labor issues; based on the listed contact info, the entire operation is headed for the Oregon nexus, though there’s nothiing on either site saying that. That leaves speculation, in this case seemingly at the choice of Nechville.

gcpicken - Posted - 02/25/2024:  11:17:15

quote:

---

Originally posted by airport-security

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mark Douglas

Good luck with your collection of Nechville banjos. They will always be an interesting experiment and history will judge them as such. Too bad they will never be held up as a world-class, premier instrument!

---

Aw, man. I am a proud owner of a Nechville. Not world class? What would be considered such, if not a Gibson? Is Huber world class? Deering? Anyone ever A/B'd a Huber and a more classic Nechville?

---

I have the Vintage Model. Not inexpensive. Even with the brass tone ring (which undoes the benefit of weight reduction) it does not "cut" when played acoustically.  That's not an "opinion". Its just a different animal. Yes, you can run it through the Warp Drive and into a board like Billy Failing. Mine now lives in its case. My '27 Gibson, Huber VRB-G and Bishline Harvest get played daily. Yes, I have had banjo players listen to all four, successively, eyes closed, switching them up, and they all put them in the same order tone-wise, and yes, head tension was drum-dial 91 on all. '27 Gibson, VRB-G, Bishline, and waaay back, Nechville. If you just want lightweight, its a very nice banjo. (But don't buy into the "Perfect Head Tension" marketing gimmick).

Note: The post was kinda OT - perhaps I should not have compounded it by responding?

LJL - Posted - 02/25/2024:  11:20:39

quote:

---

Originally posted by banjo bill-e

Nechville is not a giant company like Starbucks, with thousands of employees and remote top management. Tom no doubt knows every employee quite well, we are talking six employees here! And these six want to completely change the working relationship from consensual to one of demands, backed by legal force. No doubt he is livid, and anyone who had built a successful SMALL business would feel the same---this ain't GM! Exploited? What about opportunity? Just how many jobs are out there building high end banjos? These six may soon find out the answer to that.

---

There is so much wild speculation and outright falsehoods on this forum topic, some defamatory.

I would hope that the folks on this forum would understand that business owners bear all of the risks and responsibilities. 

Tom Nechville paid his employees more than he paid himself. He could not afford to keep the Bloomington volume banjo production shop going. He has to sell the building that houses the shop.

The former employees knew about the business's dire financial straits. The employee whose job it was to collect rent feom the building anchor renter failed to collect rent and failed to inform Tom of the rent being in arrears until Tom asked why he wasn't recording the rent. By that time (September of last year), the renters was $50k in arears. The employees were fully aware of this fact.

They were also aware that because the anchor renter was in arears, Tom had to borrow money to pay property tax on the building last fall. He faces a balloon payments on his mortgage in 2025. He decided that expediting the sale of the building was the best way forward. 

The listing commerical real estate agent had contact with employees December 14. The employees retaliated by forming a union.

Tom will be 68 this year. His intention is to continue with his small custom shop in Oregon, which he opened in 2022. Two of the former employees are familiar with the shop because Tom brought them out for a visit that same year. Neither expressed the desire to move to Oregon. 

Since then, Tom recognized that the old model of building banjos with employees is financially unsustainable. He plans to build a handful of custom models each year.

The former employees filed several baseless unfair labor practice charges against Tom that are easily refuted but expensive to defend against. 

The former employees have requested an injunction to FORCE Tom to reopen the shop and rehire the employees. 

Tom simply does not have the means to do that. 

Let me tell you about the union's online doxxing campaign. Tom has been harrassed  online, via phone, email, text and now in person at Wintergrass. The former employees are part and parcel of this campaign. They are activelly attempted to damage the Nechville brand and to destroy Tom's reputation. 

The union picketed inside the festival hotel and spread their full-color flyers through the festival Friday, until they were escorted to the street by hotel security. 

Yesterday they returned to Tom's banjo booth and stole a banjo and his laptop.

Police reports filed, security cameras being consulted.

Tell me, how many of you would like to work your entire life to innovate and build banjos, paying yourself no salary for most of that time, then face retirement with no social security and on top of that, be faced with an attempt by employees (most of whom have worked for Nechville for only a brief time) to bring down the full force of federal labor law on your head? Even thought the claims are baseless, he still has to defend against them.

Have some sympathy for a good man who has done his best his whole life. 

Instead of providing a bully pulpit for disgruntled former employees who are spreading defamatory false information about Tom, ask why those former employees are trying to wrest control of atom's company, of his ability to build banjos, and are trying to bankrupt him?

Tom is at Wintergrass this 

airport-security - Posted - 02/25/2024:  11:27:54

quote:

---

Originally posted by gcpicken

Note: The post was kinda OT - perhaps I should not have compounded it by responding?

---

Sorry about that. Thanks for the input!

Mark Douglas - Posted - 02/25/2024:  11:55:02

quote:

---

Originally posted by gcpicken

quote:

---

 

---

 

---

I have the Vintage Model. Not inexpensive. Even with the brass tone ring (which undoes the benefit of weight reduction) it does not "cut" when played acoustically.  That's not an "opinion". Its just a different animal. Yes, you can run it through the Warp Drive and into a board like Billy Failing. Mine now lives in its case. My '27 Gibson, Huber VRB-G and Bishline Harvest get played daily. Yes, I have had banjo players listen to all four, successively, eyes closed, switching them up, and they all put them in the same order tone-wise, and yes, head tension was drum-dial 91 on all. '27 Gibson, VRB-G, Bishline, and waaay back, Nechville. If you just want lightweight, its a very nice banjo. (But don't buy into the "Perfect Head Tension" marketing gimmick).

Note: The post was kinda OT - perhaps I should not have compounded it by responding?

---

You're absolutely right....

It doesn't "cut" effectively when played strictly in an acoustic setting.

It's kind of like a banjo on Valium!

Mark Douglas - Posted - 02/25/2024:  12:33:29

quote:

---

Originally posted by LJL

quote:

---

 

---

 

Instead of providing a bully pulpit for disgruntled former employees 

 

---

The term "Bully Pulpit" implies that there is an exclusive platform with a very specific agenda being advocated by those who are in power or control the agenda. To suggest that this forum has provided that....???

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Using hyperbole only diminishes any attempt to make a case for the other viewpoint!

Edited by - Mark Douglas on 02/25/2024 12:36:00

gcpicken - Posted - 02/25/2024:  13:00:59

You're absolutely right....

It doesn't "cut" effectively when played strictly in an acoustic setting.

It's kind of like a banjo on Valium!

 

 

---

That's hilarious! Some humor in the thread! YAY!

gcpicken - Posted - 02/25/2024:  13:08:04

quote:

---

Originally posted by LJL

 

The former employees have requested an injunction to FORCE Tom to reopen the shop and rehire the employees. 

---

You have a Jurisdiction and case number on that?

doryman - Posted - 02/25/2024:  13:43:19

quote:

---

Originally posted by LJL

quote:

---

Originally posted by banjo bill-e

Nechville is not a giant company like Starbucks, with thousands of employees and remote top management. Tom no doubt knows every employee quite well, we are talking six employees here! And these six want to completely change the working relationship from consensual to one of demands, backed by legal force. No doubt he is livid, and anyone who had built a successful SMALL business would feel the same---this ain't GM! Exploited? What about opportunity? Just how many jobs are out there building high end banjos? These six may soon find out the answer to that.

---

There is so much wild speculation and outright falsehoods on this forum topic, some defamatory.

I would hope that the folks on this forum would understand that business owners bear all of the risks and responsibilities. 

Tom Nechville paid his employees more than he paid himself. He could not afford to keep the Bloomington volume banjo production shop going. He has to sell the building that houses the shop.

The former employees knew about the business's dire financial straits. The employee whose job it was to collect rent feom the building anchor renter failed to collect rent and failed to inform Tom of the rent being in arrears until Tom asked why he wasn't recording the rent. By that time (September of last year), the renters was $50k in arears. The employees were fully aware of this fact.

They were also aware that because the anchor renter was in arears, Tom had to borrow money to pay property tax on the building last fall. He faces a balloon payments on his mortgage in 2025. He decided that expediting the sale of the building was the best way forward. 

The listing commerical real estate agent had contact with employees December 14. The employees retaliated by forming a union.

Tom will be 68 this year. His intention is to continue with his small custom shop in Oregon, which he opened in 2022. Two of the former employees are familiar with the shop because Tom brought them out for a visit that same year. Neither expressed the desire to move to Oregon. 

Since then, Tom recognized that the old model of building banjos with employees is financially unsustainable. He plans to build a handful of custom models each year.

The former employees filed several baseless unfair labor practice charges against Tom that are easily refuted but expensive to defend against. 

The former employees have requested an injunction to FORCE Tom to reopen the shop and rehire the employees. 

Tom simply does not have the means to do that. 

Let me tell you about the union's online doxxing campaign. Tom has been harrassed  online, via phone, email, text and now in person at Wintergrass. The former employees are part and parcel of this campaign. They are activelly attempted to damage the Nechville brand and to destroy Tom's reputation. 

The union picketed inside the festival hotel and spread their full-color flyers through the festival Friday, until they were escorted to the street by hotel security. 

Yesterday they returned to Tom's banjo booth and stole a banjo and his laptop.

Police reports filed, security cameras being consulted.

Tell me, how many of you would like to work your entire life to innovate and build banjos, paying yourself no salary for most of that time, then face retirement with no social security and on top of that, be faced with an attempt by employees (most of whom have worked for Nechville for only a brief time) to bring down the full force of federal labor law on your head? Even thought the claims are baseless, he still has to defend against them.

Have some sympathy for a good man who has done his best his whole life. 

Instead of providing a bully pulpit for disgruntled former employees who are spreading defamatory false information about Tom, ask why those former employees are trying to wrest control of atom's company, of his ability to build banjos, and are trying to bankrupt him?

 

 

 

 

Tom is at Wintergrass this 

 

---

I'm sorry this happened.  I was at Wintergrass all weekend (Friday - Sun morning), visited with Tom at his booth on Saturday, played a banjo he had on display, and chatted about a custom banjo he made for me years ago. He had many interested customers, and folks were jamming there too.  I didn't see any flyers or the picketers. I'm not saying it didn't happen, only that, hopefully, it wasn't so widespread as to be the talk of festival.  In fact, I didn't here anyone mention it at all.  

Bill Rogers - Posted - 02/25/2024:  14:02:18

Ok. The Nechville view is now represented. It’s up to readers to sort things out. It seems to me we’re looking to cast blame here or there when the breakdown has multiple causes and responsibilities. I’m now inclined to let the courts sort it out if they are even involved. The NLRB seems now out of the loop—and Nechville will be a strictly Oregon operation. We are unlikely to find all the facts, and it doesn’t really matter.

NotABanjoYoda - Posted - 02/25/2024:  14:13:47

" then face retirement with no social security"

I dont get how this statement can be true? Business owners pay into SS and are eligible for it....unless you dont file. I am a business owner and must pay my side and employers side of FICA tax. Am i missing something?

Please continue on. Most entertaining btw. And I own a Nechville.

BanjoLink - Posted - 02/25/2024:  14:28:15

quote:

---

Originally posted by NotABanjoYoda

" then face retirement with no social security"



I dont get how this statement can be true? Business owners pay into SS and are eligible for it....unless you dont file. I am a business owner and must pay my side and employers side of FICA tax. Am i missing something?



Please continue on. Most entertaining btw. And I own a Nechville.

---

I noticed that too Yoda, but I suspect that she meant to say no 401K, SEP, or IRA.  Thank goodness I had a SEP for all of my working years (still working though could have retired 15 years ago), as Social Security would not have cut the mustard.

Good luck to the employees and their union plan for getting a company of the verge of bankruptcy (my assumption) back in business and paying higher salaries, vacation, health insurance, and more vacation.  I'll be curious to see how that works!

Brian Murphy - Posted - 02/25/2024:  14:58:07

quote:

---

Originally posted by gcpicken

quote:

---

Originally posted by LJL

 

The former employees have requested an injunction to FORCE Tom to reopen the shop and rehire the employees. 

---

You have a Jurisdiction and case number on that?

---

The docket is here:  nlrb.gov/case/18-CA-336153

Mad Hornet - Posted - 02/25/2024:  15:03:08

quote:

---

Originally posted by NotABanjoYoda

" then face retirement with no social security"



I dont get how this statement can be true? Business owners pay into SS and are eligible for it....unless you dont file. I am a business owner and must pay my side and employers side of FICA tax. Am i missing something?



Please continue on. Most entertaining btw. And I own a Nechville.

---

It's possible he never paid himself a salary and took his income through distributions.  In the early goings of our business I did that to increase cash flow but that didn't last long for various reasons.  It's also possible (and I don't know this) that all his employees were "1099" and so he didn't run anything through traditional payroll systems.  That could explain the no social security but if the employees were all 1099 they would also be responsible for their own taxes.  Not necessarily legal but a lot of companies do this.  A company I worked for in the 90's did this under the guise of "independent contractors" and got away with it for decades.

I am sympathetic to Mr. Nechville and certainly there is never an excuse for thuggish behavior. 

But I am having difficulty reconciling the claim that he delegated the role of collecting rent and had no idea a tenant was 50 grand in arrears. 

O.D. - Posted - 02/25/2024:  15:03:57

As I understand it,in my state anyway, if you operate as a sole proprietor ,not a corporation of sometype, you don't need to set yourself up as an employee of your buisness. Your tax liability is based on your gross income of the buisness after expenses, deductions,etc.. you dont  have to contribute to the programs if you choose not to.I know several buisness associates that operate like that.

Of course your not personally protected as you would be under a corporate shield. 



Everett.

Edited by - O.D. on 02/25/2024 15:18:24

gcpicken - Posted - 02/25/2024:  15:12:52

I read a number of posts about what a great businessman Tom is. That's hard to square with not knowing that $50,000 in rent has not been collected, particularly if money is tight, as suggested. Also, considering he had a very small "workforce", he seemed to have generated a lot of ill-will amongst them - good business? Does anyone know when/if he stopped taking deposits on new orders? And if he ha returned/is returning them?

I am guessing (just guessing) he is now working through surrogates in this thread (LJL - three posts since 11/29/2020) - good decision because of the litigation.

Bill Rogers - Posted - 02/25/2024:  16:15:04

Note that the NLRB filing is quite recent. An earlier one is marked “Closed.” That indicates the former workers aren’t letting it drop. And it would also suggest they are indeed employees. The Oregon location goes back to 2021. What were workers told about it? As is often the case in such disputes, the more we learn, the more questions arise. Stay tuned. Also see: banjoswest.com/

Edited by - Bill Rogers on 02/25/2024 16:22:45

Mark Douglas - Posted - 02/25/2024:  16:33:36

quote:

---

Originally posted by doryman

quote:

---

He had many interested customers.

---

Wonderful....being interested is quite different than actually plunking down a deposit for a product from a company that is now in financial distress/chaos. Submitting an order is no guarantee that you'd ever receive the banjo in this period of turmoil and transition. You say you were there....did you observe any new orders being taken or even discussed? I would be flabbergasted to learn they are currently accepting new orders. But stranger things have happened.

doryman - Posted - 02/25/2024:  18:16:28

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mark Douglas

quote:

---

Originally posted by doryman

quote:

---

He had many interested customers.

---

 

Wonderful....being interested is quite different than actually plunking down a deposit for a product from a company that is now in financial distress/chaos. Submitting an order is no guarantee that you'd ever receive the banjo in this period of turmoil and transition. You say you were there....did you observe any new orders being taken or even discussed? I would be flabbergasted to learn they are currently accepting new orders. But stranger things have happened.

 

 

 

---

My point in mentioning this was not to suggest that it would serve as indication of future business, but rather that the people at the booth were "interested customers" acting like normal banjo enthusiasts, not angry mobs, demanding to know what the heck was going on with attempts to unionize.  It was a completely normal looking scene. 

Bill Rogers - Posted - 02/25/2024:  18:20:30

I suspect that, absent reading this thread or being closely connected with Nechville, banjo players or wannabes have no idea about the controversy.

gcpicken - Posted - 02/25/2024:  18:44:19

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bill Rogers

Note that the NLRB filing is quite recent. An earlier one is marked “Closed.” That indicates the former workers aren’t letting it drop. And it would also suggest they are indeed employees. The Oregon location goes back to 2021. What were workers told about it? As is often the case in such disputes, the more we learn, the more questions arise. Stay tuned. Also see: banjoswest.com/

 

---

Do you know how long Banjoswest has been around? Last year, I can't remember the date, but he had me Venmo him personally for a Nechville product that I thought I was buying from Nechville. I don't know or suggest that it was inappropriate, but it seemed unusual. I wonder who holds the patent on his screwtop banjo (I believe he has used that description himself)?

i know there has been some vitriol in this thread, but I think it has made us aware as consumers (and owners) of a situation that could affect us. What if we need parts? Should we sell? Etc.

Edited by - gcpicken on 02/25/2024 18:48:30

fotoguzzi - Posted - 02/25/2024:  18:49:17

!

 

gcpicken - Posted - 02/25/2024:  18:58:24

quote:

---

Originally posted by airport-security

quote:

---

Originally posted by gcpicken

Note: The post was kinda OT - perhaps I should not have compounded it by responding?

---

Sorry about that. Thanks for the input!

---

I threw you under the bus to keep myself out of trouble, Bro! ????

Bill Rogers - Posted - 02/25/2024:  19:25:50

If TN was selling parts on his own it leads to asking whether he was siphoning off income that should have been going to the LLC in order to make the argument it was losing money and had to undergo significant change or shut down. This is the sort of question that government agencies will be interested in.

doryman - Posted - 02/25/2024:  19:49:41

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bill Rogers

I suspect that, absent reading this thread or being closely connected with Nechville, banjo players or wannabes have no idea about the controversy.

---

Exactly. 

Magic Grits - Posted - 02/25/2024:  19:58:36

I would like to point out that Mr. Nechville posted on BHO on December 9, 2023 stating that he was making banjos in Oregon and Minnesota. banjohangout.org/topic/394298/2#top . I bought a resonator from Nechville a couple of years ago that had a 6 month turnaround. I think it's safe to assume a banjo would take at least that long, and probably longer, to be constructed. So was Mr. Nechville still taking orders at that time? How did he plan on fulfilling them if he was closing up the Minnesota shop in February 2024?

This is a bit of a digression, but the email and phone number that the N6 put on their flyer is the same as the ones on the banjos west site. That means it is public information. This is not a license to send anything that would fall under harassment laws, but it does mean that unless something else was posted, such as a home address, Mr. Nechville was not doxxed. Doxxing also includes information being posted for the sake of malicious harassment. The flyer asked for people to contact Mr. Nechville to ask him to give the N6 their jobs back. I don't think many states would count that under harassment or doxx laws.

If it's true that the employees were all recent, I'm not certain that exactly speaks well of the business practices at Nechville. My family's business has employees that have been there for two or three decades. And yes, it is a lot of sacrifice to keep employees happy, but it's what one should do when they're in a position of authority. Going around calling your employees drunkards and potheads is certainly a choice.

I just took took pictures of my Nechville Moonshine, which will be posted soon in the marketplace. I no longer want any association with the brand.

banjoy - Posted - 02/25/2024:  22:55:09

The vitriol thrown at Tom Nechville here is absolutely disgusting and this thread represents the worst Banjohangout has to offer. All of you should be ashamed of yourselves, all this gossup, rumor and innuendo seems to be fuel for the worst of the worst here. It is fine to discuss the issue but the personal attacks when NOT ONE OF US HERE really knows what is going on, we might THINK we know but we do not. The arraogance and hubris shown here by a few partuicipants in this thread is over the top. Go look in the mirror.

Tom has helped banjoworld more than any one of here has ever dreamed of. His contributions to the banjo itself and to the players themselves often gets no credit. Tom has revolutionized banjo land, made contributions here -- how many of you quickly forget how he participated in years past getting banjos in the hands of deserving youth, right here on BHO, and his other contributions outside BHO none of us ever heard about -- guess that means nothing.

So threads like this come along and the usual gang of keyboard warriors jumps in to trash someone with impunity. How brave, how noble. NO. How disgusting and shameful. If you can't see that, you have my sympathy.

Personally I don't blame Tom Nechville for not participating in threads like this, why would he? There is nothing positive to be gained and if he did you guys would brutalize him here and that's all. This is not a fair forum for adjudicating these issues and he I am sure won't take the bait. Tom's a million miles away from being an idiot.

Sure, BHO is full of sympathy empathy, and understanding. Nope. It's a place full of vitriol, know-it-alls, and just downright hateful people. Piling on nonesense out of thin air then discussing it as if it has merit. That b.s. sure keeps me away from this place of late. Some of the hate and vitriol offered in this thread is laughable at best.

Rather than sell my Nechville, I think this all made it that much more valuable. Definitely gonna keep it. But this thread sure has diminished BHO , and some of its players, in my eyes and spirit. I can live without this place (queue up the haters, who can quite honestly go to hell, I'm going nowhere).

Ya know, I have a brother who lives in Portland, OR I've never visited. Sisters is only about an hour away. I have always wanted to visit out there, so if I do I will definitely plan on visiting Tom Nechville.

The more I have read about this mini controversy, the less and less respect I have for those 6 workers. Whether doxxed or not, their approach to stir up hate, suspicion and target an individual for this on the internet, in this day and age, is a very dangerous game to play and despicable.

Mark Douglas - Posted - 02/26/2024:  01:11:49

quote:

---

Originally posted by banjoy

The vitriol thrown at Tom Nechville here is absolutely disgusting (queue up the haters, who can quite honestly go to hell, 

---

Therefore, your response is to throw vitriol at

some of the forum members? 

Oh....the ..... irony!

Say your piece....but telling folks to "go to hell"

is uncalled for. I'll be praying for you!

Mark Douglas - Posted - 02/26/2024:  01:19:15

When we tell folks here to.....

"go to hell"

We definitely need to take a deep breath and contemplate what we're saying and doing.

If one's intent is to help/defend TN,
this is self-defeating!

Texasbanjo - Posted - 02/26/2024:  04:20:16

I agree, telling people to go to hell is not something we want posted here.

This thread is just one more post from being locked. Let's try to be civil and decent and keep this thread open. Any more of the above will get not only the thread locked, but also the person posting such negativity.

UTM - Posted - 02/26/2024:  05:18:46

Frank;

Thank you for your sharing your perspective.

When I was a kid, I raised chickens for my very first 4H project. One one occasion, one of my half grown chickens got caught in the fence. When I found it and got it out, it had a little blood coming from the wound on it's comb. I wiped it off and turned it loose with the others.



My Grandmother was living with us at the time. When I happened to mention it to my mom at the lunch table, Grandma got up and hobbled out to the chicken coop.



When I saw what was going on I was shocked. That injured chicken, that had been a peaceful part of the flock an hour and a half earlier was being chased mercilessly around the pen being pecked viciously by almost every other chicken. Blood was covering it's head and neck.



Grandma told me to get it out of the pen and into the garage so she could clean it up. She told me later that that is just how chickens are, they see some weakness or something different about another chicken and they pick on it.



Funny how some memories can haunt you. 

Edited by - UTM on 02/26/2024 05:34:18

phb - Posted - 02/26/2024:  05:51:02

This seems to be a dispute between seven individuals, Tom Nechville and six of his employees. I don't see how making any of this public is going to help the six employees since pretty much all this publicity achieves is to harm the brand under which all seven have been making a living. It's not like this is a dispute centered around a multinational corporation. This being said, I don't understand why unionising is seen as an act of "retaliation". In my book unionisation isn't necessarily a hostile act at all. Even when you are shutting down a business, a union should be suitable to serve as a tool in the process. But hey, I'm from a country where the right to unionise is laid down in the constitution.

Oh, full disclosure ahead: I met and talked to Tom Nechville, he even did some setup work on my cheap beginner banjo for free. I didn't buy any of his instruments, though. One of the best banjo players I have ever met plays a Nechville whatever significance this may have.

Mark Douglas - Posted - 02/26/2024:  07:09:42

Let the chips fall where they may!



We have now heard from the Holier Than Thou Crowd!



They seem to have a monopoly on moral authority.



Let me see if I have this correct....The moral authority crowd is good and righteous?

Those who represent another perspective/opinion are not good!



Those who have been skeptical and critical of TN are "the worst Banjo Hangout has to offer".





To the Holier Than Thou Crowd:



Go ahead and play the part of the "Fair Haired Choir Boy (or Girl) if that makes you feel good.



But.... you all have a dark side to your personality as well.



And you better learn to love it... you better learn to live with it.... because it's a part of you!





Therefore, please dispense with all the blood, tears and sweat all over the floor.



Please give the rest of us a break from your moral outrage and your rant against all



the hypocrisy and injustice you have "exposed" here. In the meantime, please forgive

the rest of us if we do not nominate y'all for Sainthood!



Have a great day!

Edited by - Mark Douglas on 02/26/2024 07:15:38