Oldtimian - Posted - 04/21/2020:  08:11:42

Hello everyone!





I come here for your advice about S.S.Stewart banjo belonging to my father. He bought this banjo last year. He love this banjo and play it daily, but he complains about neck angle (action is too high and neck is slightly angled to side) and would like to get it fixed. When he bought this banjo, seller honestly said that neck had its heel adjusted in past, so no surprise there. When you look on photos of dowel stick, there is six small holes left after something screwed in past. My father thinks that it was adjustable neck brace he seen on some other Stewart banjos and says he would like this brace on his banjo too. I told him it would be better to ask here first as it would be wrong to modify beautiful vintage banjo with parts that maybe should not be there. He fully agree with me, so here I am asking for advice if this banjo should have this neck brace or not and if not, why are there those screw holes in its dowel stick... Serial number on dowel stick is 8083.



Thank you!

Edited by - Oldtimian on 04/21/2020 09:08:25

Front

Back

Dowel stick

 

Joel Hooks - Posted - 04/21/2020:  08:35:09

Those holes were not made by the patent Richard Kuenstler turn buckle adjuster. Be glad it did not have one as you would now have a split heel for trying to use it.

Stewart banjos were built and designed for a specific style of music and set up. The neck had zero back angle. With a half inch bridge and thin gut strings (thinner than what is sold as nylon or polyester today) the action would be right around 1/4" high at the 12th fret. That is correct.

Stick on wire strings and a 5/8" bridge and that action becomes unreal.

So the conundrum. Banjoists have a difficult time with this. It is something that they cannot accept. Strangely there is not an issue with guitarists trying to use wire strings on Spanish/"classical" guitars to the same degree.

There are banjos deigned and built for steel strings. And there are those that were not (pretty much all good regular banjos built before the 1920s, and most after that until WW2).

Just like guitars (though guitarists did start using steel strings earlier than banjoists).

In order to turn your banjo into what you want it to be you will need to have the neck reset and the heel recut. This requires removing the dowel, plugging the hole, redrilling, removing materiel from the heel to recut it, and regluing the dowel.

After that SSS necks still tend to be bendy. Stewart thought that banjos should be built as light and responsive as possible-- like a violin. The tension of steel strings are just too much for them.

I suppose you could peel off the fingerboard and install a truss rod to support the neck.

trapdoor2 - Posted - 04/21/2020:  11:24:23

As @Joel Hooks says, this lovely Stewart never had the adjuster on it...because it is older than 1895 (when the adjuster came out).

If you lay a straightedge along the neck, it should run parallel to the surface of the head...that was normal back then. These banjos came with 1/2" (12.7mm) high bridges. The normal action was higher back then as well.

Minor side-to-side correction may be done with thin shims...playing card thickness...but anything more than that requires invasive wood adjustment. A knowledgeable luthier...and money!

spoonfed - Posted - 04/21/2020:  11:54:10

It seems that the OPs most pertinent question has not been addressed here ; action too high, that bridge looks like a beast so, maybe a 1/2" bridge might solve at least some of his problems and, TP adjustment might centre the neck better too, just a place to start before spending big bucks.

Joel Hooks - Posted - 04/21/2020:  12:25:27

quote:

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Originally posted by spoonfed

It seems that the OPs most pertinent question has not been addressed here ; action too high, that bridge looks like a beast so, maybe a 1/2" bridge might solve at least some of his problems and, TP adjustment might centre the neck better too, just a place to start before spending big bucks.

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Usually 1/2" bridge with steel strings won't do it with a SSS.  There is still the neck flex or deflection to account for (caused by the added tension.

A reset is the only answer.

Oh, and forget about the original frets.  Those tiny frets don't stand a chance against steel strings.  So, consider a refret with larger frets at some point.  Might as well have it done with the neck reset.

If you are still using friction pegs, it would be a good time to have geared pegs installed while it is in for the "modern standards" overhaul. 

If I am wrong and the strings being used are correct nylon then a 1/2" bridge or slightly lower would be the answer provided that the neck has not been changed.  If the strings are too low then it is going to buzz and clack like crazy.

spoonfed - Posted - 04/21/2020:  12:30:57

well I guess I cant see it that clearly on my laptop, so could not draw any useful conclusions from the strings or comment re; straightness or otherwise of the neck. I would still be inclined as a first stop to try a lower bridge to at least correct the high action.

Oldtimian - Posted - 04/21/2020:  12:52:09

Thank you guys for your answers!

My father always use only NylGut (medium) strings for his old banjos, he know very well that steel strings should not be used on vintage banjos at all... Same with repairs and so, he would do only basic maintenance, leaving serious repairs to skilled banjo builder. Fortunatelly, we got lot of those here in Czech Republic... Owning piece of American history is great responsibility beyond all and he knows it very well!

Tuning pegs on this banjo are not friction pegs, but Pegheds or how they are called - geared pegs that look like friction ones. And they are great - soft and smooth, yet hold tight!

It is very interesting that old Stewart banjos didn't have angled neck, that explains a lot! I got experience with this on homemade mountain banjos (my main focus of collecting), but I never would guess that also openback banjos of famous builders were build same way. I will try to measure if my fathers banjo neck is in line with head tomorrow... When I tried to play on his banjo, high action was little problem, but neck angled slightly to side was more trouble. I pulled first string off fingerboard all the time, so this repair is very much needed...

Thank you for your advice of reinstalling dowel stick in case of readjusting forward/backward angle of neck, I never would guess that...

We will try to use 1/2 " bridge and see how it will work for him...

Joel Hooks - Posted - 04/21/2020:  13:07:37

quote:

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Originally posted by Oldtimian

Thank you guys for your answers!



My father always use only NylGut (medium) strings for his old banjos, he know very well that steel strings should not be used on vintage banjos at all... Same with repairs and so, he would do only basic maintenance, leaving serious repairs to skilled banjo builder. Fortunatelly, we got lot of those here in Czech Republic... Owning piece of American history is great responsibility beyond all and he knows it very well!



Tuning pegs on this banjo are not friction pegs, but Pegheds or how they are called - geared pegs that look like friction ones. And they are great - soft and smooth, yet hold tight!



It is very interesting that old Stewart banjos didn't have angled neck, that explains a lot! I got experience with this on homemade mountain banjos (my main focus of collecting), but I never would guess that also openback banjos of famous builders were build same way. I will try to measure if my fathers banjo neck is in line with head tomorrow... When I tried to play on his banjo, high action was little problem, but neck angled slightly to side was more trouble. I pulled first string off fingerboard all the time, so this repair is very much needed...



Thank you for your advice of reinstalling dowel stick in case of readjusting forward/backward angle of neck, I never would guess that...



We will try to use 1/2 " bridge and see how it will work for him...

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That is good!  Yes, 1/2" bridge.  You may find that a narrower bridge and string spacing is required.  The bridges that came on them were extremely narrow.  Only 1 5/8" wide.

They looked like the woodcuts attached below. 

Stewart Bridges

 

spoonfed - Posted - 04/21/2020:  13:18:12

Way to go Oldtimian ! Joel is too shy and retiring to tell you that he himself makes the perfect reproduction bridge for your banjo, could be all that is needed !