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KevinP - Posted - 01/01/2009: 06:39:57
If this stuff has been posted in threads before, I wasn't able to find it. I've always read that Earl Scruggs learned an old time 3-finger style from Snuffy Jenkins and then created his own style from that. I've also read that he did not learn it from him. From what I've been able to find out, I believe he might have learned it from or been influenced by Smith Hammett, who also played with and taught the style to Snuffy Jenkins.
Smith Hammett was a clawhammer player who who saw and heard a man play an old 3-finger style. He was determined to learn how to play that way and figured it out in a few weeks. Does anyone know who the man is that Smith Hammett "learned" the style from?
Or, does anyone have any information that adds to, proves, or disproves any of this?
Kevin
Edited by - KevinP on 01/01/2009 06:59:05
goldtopia - Posted - 01/01/2009: 06:57:54
Tell us more.
Bill.O
RONLD - Posted - 01/01/2009: 07:02:44
I have heard a lot of differing stories but the fact remains it is most commonly refered to as " Scruggs " style. So the originator of the style is pointless IMHO.......Earl Scruggs is
"THE MAN" !
Job 33:4 - Fitch fan #1
Banjov1 - Posted - 01/01/2009: 07:20:38
In his book "Earl Scruggs and 5 String Banjo" he described seeing and being influenced by both guys you mentioned. But no one gave him lessons. He sort of "happened" upon the style himself when he was 9 or 10. And you gotta remember when he was that age he didn't have a record player or the Amazing Slow Downer. He may have had brief glimpses at these other folks earlier in his childhood, but to him, playing 3 finger style for the first time was sort of an epiphany when it happened.
Tony
goldtopia - Posted - 01/01/2009: 07:32:59
Why do I read these things in a southern states accent when I am English. It not just this thread is also others depending where they are from. I read read Ausies with their accent.
Bill.O
goldtopia - Posted - 01/01/2009: 07:36:13
I am interested in this slow downer thing. Years ago (about 35 years) I use to slow down LPs. Tell me more.
Bill.O
KevinP - Posted - 01/01/2009: 07:38:22
quote:
Originally posted by goldtopia
Tell us more.
Bill.O
About the only thing I can add is that the man was probably black and that Hammett saw him play at the "Flint Hill School". I'm not even sure where that school is. I know from reading about this that there were a lot of 3-finger pickers around at the time of Hammett's death in 1930.
From the booklet “Roots of Rutherford”
A publication of Isothermal Community College's Oral History Project
May 1985
Kevin
Matt Buckley - Posted - 01/01/2009: 07:46:49
quote:
Originally posted by Banjov1
In his book "Earl Scruggs and 5 String Banjo" he described seeing and being influenced by both guys you mentioned. But no one gave him lessons. He sort of "happened" upon the style himself when he was 9 or 10. And you gotta remember when he was that age he didn't have a record player or the Amazing Slow Downer. He may have had brief glimpses at these other folks earlier in his childhood, but to him, playing 3 finger style for the first time was sort of an epiphany when it happened.
The origins of Earl's style were discussed in a thread in OT/Clawhammer about a month ago in connection the NPR Terry Gross interview of Earl.
I've got nothing against Earl's style, or playing, indeed I absorbed his material and approach like a sponge in the early 70s, but the basic fact is that many solid 3-finger players preceeded Earl. Perhaps the best-known player that comes to mind is Charlie Poole. If Earl is the "father" of 3-finger style, then Charlie was the Grandfather. And I have little doubt there are some Great-Grandfathers somewhere back there as well. Listen to Charlie's recordings from the 20s and 30s and you hear, distinctly, a fast, clean, 3-finger style that clearly predates Earl.
In addtion, depending upon the setting, the interviewer, etc., Earl's story has not always remained entirely consistent. There were, indeed, influences that he drew from and he has, at times, stated as such. What Earl did do, that perhaps others did not do, is that he
perfected, smoothed-out and professionalized the style and made it his own. "Invention" and "epiphany" had little to do with it, however.
Cheers, Matt
Edited by - Matt Buckley on 01/01/2009 07:48:18
gshall - Posted - 01/01/2009: 07:59:57
The Amazing Slow Downer has a site: www.ronimusic.com.
I pretty much use tabs, put them in TableEdit so I can play any selection at any speed I want. Of course, I only know a few songs so I don't have to try to learn anything by my untuned ear.
"Every man is the hero of his own song."
Jerry
tinkersdam - Posted - 01/01/2009: 08:42:23
In regard to the "Amazing Slow Downer".... there's also a freebie available on the net for Windows users called "BestPractice" which is similar in that it can either slow down or speed up the tempo, can adjust the pitch into a different key, and can isolate a specific passage in the music and play it over and over in a loop.
Instead of using it directly with the CD, I burn the song into the Windows library and work with it from there. It's a beta-type shareware program and you can read about it at the following link:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~mp2004/bp/#hist
Dee
I can get ''er up to 120.... but any more than that and I''m gonna be roadkill on the bluegrass highway.
KevinP - Posted - 01/01/2009: 08:54:22
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Buckley
quote:
Originally posted by Banjov1
In his book "Earl Scruggs and 5 String Banjo" he described seeing and being influenced by both guys you mentioned. But no one gave him lessons. He sort of "happened" upon the style himself when he was 9 or 10. And you gotta remember when he was that age he didn't have a record player or the Amazing Slow Downer. He may have had brief glimpses at these other folks earlier in his childhood, but to him, playing 3 finger style for the first time was sort of an epiphany when it happened.
The origins of Earl's style were discussed in a thread in OT/Clawhammer about a month ago in connection the NPR Terry Gross interview of Earl.
I've got nothing against Earl's style, or playing, indeed I absorbed his material and approach like a sponge in the early 70s, but the basic fact is that many solid 3-finger players preceeded Earl. Perhaps the best-known player that comes to mind is Charlie Poole. If Earl is the "father" of 3-finger style, then Charlie was the Grandfather. And I have little doubt there are some Great-Grandfathers somewhere back there as well. Listen to Charlie's recordings from the 20s and 30s and you hear, distinctly, a fast, clean, 3-finger style that clearly predates Earl.
In addtion, depending upon the setting, the interviewer, etc., Earl's story has not always remained entirely consistent. There were, indeed, influences that he drew from and he has, at times, stated as such. What Earl did do, that perhaps others did not do, is that he perfected, smoothed-out and professionalized the style and made it his own. "Invention" and "epiphany" had little to do with it, however.
Cheers, Matt
Agreed. There were many very good 3-finger pickers at least 15 years before anyone had ever heard of Earl, much as I like Earl.
Kevin
Joe Larson - Posted - 01/01/2009: 09:04:03
Well here's Charlie Poole playing a tune that Flatt and Scruggs later recorded called the White House Blues.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdNP9D7wbcM
I honestly don't here anything in here that would make me think Charlie Poole originated the 3 finger style.
j
I''d rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
Adk Rebel - Posted - 01/01/2009: 09:21:10
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Buckley
... If Earl is the "father" of 3-finger style, then Charlie was the Grandfather. And I have little doubt there are some Great-Grandfathers somewhere back there as well....
Matt,
I think Earl would and rightfully should be considered the father of the Scruggs style of playing.
quote:
There were, indeed, influences that he drew from and he has, at times, stated as such. What Earl did do, that perhaps others did not do, is that he perfected, smoothed-out and professionalized the style and made it his own. "Invention" and "epiphany" had little to do with it, however.
Here I have to agree with the first part, mildly disagree with the second part, and strongly disagree with the last sentence.
You are right, Earl had a lot of influences, some that he commonly talks about and others that he doesn't. Like blues players. It's been said that Earl developed quite a few of his trademark licks from trying to mimic things such as the horns in a blues band.
Yes, Earl borrowed from a lot of different influences and the argument could be made for any one of them to be the "basis" of his style. But, remember that back when Earl played they only had access to just a few LP's, or a weekly radio show, or perhaps a local band or maybe even what we would call a national band that may have toured through the area probably once in a lifetime. They didn't have access to the overwhelming bands, styles, selections and resources of music that we are accustomed to nowadays and have the instant access to it, any time, any day, any where, like we currently do.
But the simple fact remains that even though they ALL influenced him, it was the compilation of all those influences put together with a darned lot of hard work and practice resulted in a distinct style and sound that we now know as Scruggs Style of three finger picking. Through this hard work and practice, he developed his own distinct style and sound. But, as far as current and past influences in the banjo playing world, he is hands down the most copied, the most studied and the most emulated of all banjo players.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not singling you out, I am just using your post as a jumping board.
We see (especially here on the BHO) a lot of theories about who copied who and who stole from who, but not many people try to mentally revert back to what was available and what was music like back in the day when all of these greats were musicians in training and were developing their own style.
And this is where I disagree with your last sentence. Earl may have listened to a traveling band just once and heard something that he liked. He may have heard a particular song on the radio that he liked only once a week. That means he had to practice and develop how he thought it sounded like for a whole week before he might have a chance to hear it again.
The epiphanies and the inventions probably didn't happen while he was dreaming one night as a breakthrough, they came as the result of a lot of hard work and dedication and once again, a lot of hard practice. When he says in his book to practice each lick a thousand times, he isn't kidding.
I have to give Earl credit for the vast musical profile that he was able to develop with the very limited resources that were available in his time. That compilation, that sound we all know as Earl Scruggs, IS the epiphany and the invention.
RichKateyz Banjo BridgesCustom Scrimshaw by Ed WeberPrice Banjo CasesMy Fawley Retrotones
Edited by - Adk Rebel on 01/01/2009 09:23:43
Trewq36 - Posted - 01/01/2009: 09:49:42
Actually just yesterday on a Radio program about Hank Williams it was mentioned that Charlie Poole's sound and three finger picking was an influence on Hank as well as Earl. How true or where the DJ got his info, I can not say. Just thought I'd mention what I heard.
Never play the same thing once......yoR
Edited by - Trewq36 on 01/01/2009 09:50:55
Banjov1 - Posted - 01/01/2009: 10:15:38
When I used the term epiphany, I still think that's accurate. Even though there were 3 finger style players that proceeded him and indeed influenced him, I don't think anyone sat him down and said here's how you do it. He didn't read a book with tablature saying do it this way. He basically played hours a day and just happened upon his first 3 finger roll, and the way he describes it sounds like an epiphany to me.
He could have been just as influential if Hammett had sat him down when he was 6 and said, "Okay, here's how you do it". I just think Earl's discovery of his first roll was a neat story and it sounded like an epiphany to me.
Tony
Matt Buckley - Posted - 01/01/2009: 10:30:49
quote:
Originally posted by Joe Larson
Well here's Charlie Poole playing a tune that Flatt and Scruggs later recorded called the White House Blues.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdNP9D7wbcM
I honestly don't here anything in here that would make me think Charlie Poole originated the 3 finger style.j
That particular clip is not representative of Charlie's 3-finger style. He played, and was conversant with, several styles.
Cheers, Matt
Matt Buckley - Posted - 01/01/2009: 11:45:01
Having carefully considered many of the comments following mine, I'd like to modify my own comments a bit. Perhaps epiphany is, indeed, the fair word to use.
I think, too, I can state my views a bit more clearly. My goal is only to challenge the myth, perpetuated by many BG players to this day, that Earl invented 3-finger picking. He did not, but instead developed and promoted, and indeed invented, for those of you that want to use that word, his own dynamic style. My intent is not to take away from anything Earl, has accomplished, but simply to add some historical background.
Cheers, Matt
5stringJim - Posted - 01/01/2009: 11:53:43
quote:
Originally posted by Adk Rebel
[quote]Originally posted by Matt Buckley
.
Earl may have listened to a traveling band just once and heard something that he liked. He may have heard a particular song on the radio that he liked only once a week. That means he had to practice and develop how he thought it sounded like for a whole week before he might have a chance to hear it again.
Yeah, the same thing used to happen to me back in the 70s, where I'd hear something , try and work it out from memory, and later discover I'd got it wrong...but most times in a good way....ie, I'd created my own licks based on mis-hearing someone elses. One of my "signature" licks was a result of getting an Eric Weissberg melodic run slightly wrong, but my version works and sounds great, and unique
Bill Keith was the same, according to an old interview:- he heard Noah Crase on a short-wave radio broadcast, mis-heard a lick, and working out what he THOUGHT he'd heard gave him the basis of working out melodic-style picking. That WAS an epiphany, according to Bill.
Jim Hyndman
www.longway.org.uk
lethegoodtimesroll - Posted - 01/01/2009: 15:02:10
I think that some old cylinder recordings of Classical fingerstyle banjo( Van Eps).....were heard by some of the locals and thats were it started. Snuffy.....did do alot for the style aswell as Earl & Don.........Monroe also had some influence on Scruggs style.....Then we have Carrol Best. he was playing a 3 fingerstyle banjo that he learned from his dad.... and fiddle tunes on the banjo in the 40,s note for note. I also would like to Thank Bill Keith for putting this style on paper..... and for naming the pickin patterns "rolls" He helped millons learn scruggs style banjo.
Edited by - lethegoodtimesroll on 01/01/2009 15:49:52
gshall - Posted - 01/01/2009: 15:21:40
Regardless of all the posts above, and I agreed with each one as I read it, all those guys are a lot better than I hope to be (and I DO have the advantage of a computer and the Internet). No matter who did what in what order, those guys were all great in their own right. ...as I strive for mediocrity.
"Every man is the hero of his own song."
Jerry
Sandy Rothman - Posted - 01/01/2009: 22:13:54
Indeed the subject has been discussed at length on BHO at various times...it's worth searching for.
KevinP - Posted - 01/02/2009: 02:42:56
quote:
Originally posted by Sandy Rothman
Indeed the subject has been discussed at length on BHO at various times...it's worth searching for.
I wasn't able to find much on Smith Hammett, but I did find a list of banjo players you posted in one of the threads. This will give me a lot of good listening for a while.
Johnny Whisnant
Don Stover
Walter Hensley
Porter Church
Donnie Bryant
Paul Craft
Rudy Lyle
Sam Hutchins
Noah Crase
Joe Medford
Haskell McCormick
Bll Napier
Harley Bray
Jim Smoak
Joe Drumright
Kevin
Joe Larson - Posted - 01/02/2009: 07:05:40
Yep, this topic has been covered many times. I'm no expert on these B.E. (Before Earl) banjo players but I've never heard anyone who preceded him who sounded anything like him. If they had we'd be calling it Poole style or Hammett or Smith style or whatever. They would have been the ones who electrified audiences the way Earl did when he first took the stage and we would be speaking of them in the reverential tones we currently reserve for his majesty Mr Scruggs.
The banjo was already on it's way out before Earl came along. People in the rural south and the southern diaspora in the north were becoming acquainted with more sophisticated music and the days of groups like Bill Monroe's were numbered. None of Earl's precursors were able to put together a sound that had anything like the energy which he brought to the genre.
Not that these people should be discounted, everyone stands on the shoulders of the ones who came before, but after awhile these kinds of discussions start to sound like revisionist history, an attempt to minimize what was a great achievement. (at least to Blue Grass banjo players 
)
John Hartford said something to the effect of lots of banjo players played the 3 finger style but without Earl, who cares.
j
I''d rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
Edited by - Joe Larson on 01/02/2009 07:07:05
Matt Buckley - Posted - 01/02/2009: 07:40:45
quote:
Originally posted by Joe Larson
] The banjo was already on it's way out before Earl came along. ... None of Earl's precursors were able to put together a sound that had anything like the energy which he brought to the genre.
In the larger context of 5-string, this is not accurate. Old Time players never had any interest in the first instance in doing what Earl did. That doesn't mean that Earl didn't do something amazing, it's just that, for OT players at least, what Earl was trying to do wasn't relevant or even particularly desireable.
OT 5-string was never "in", and therefore was never in much danger being "out". The OT revival had little if nothing to do with Earl's sound.
Cheers, Matt
Edited by - Matt Buckley on 01/02/2009 07:55:55
KevinP - Posted - 01/02/2009: 07:54:57
quote:
Originally posted by Joe Larson
Not that these people should be discounted, everyone stands on the shoulders of the ones who came before, but after awhile these kinds of discussions start to sound like revisionist history, an attempt to minimize what was a great achievement. (at least to Blue Grass banjo players )
John Hartford said something to the effect of lots of banjo players played the 3 finger style but without Earl, who cares.
j
I''d rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
Joe, I'm not trying to minimize anything Earl did, I'm only interested in tracing the line of development of the 3-finger style.
Kevin
Jayme Stone - Posted - 01/02/2009: 08:27:23
this is a fascinating subject and one that invariably surfaces every time a technique, style, or school gets developed and popularized by a single founder. oftentimes, a founder (in this case earl) has innumerable influences and synthesizes them into a personal language that fits his or her own disposition, time period and professional situation. earl had a very clear and compelling vision of how to play the banjo with drive, smoothness and versatility for the musical situations that he found himself in at the time. he also emerged in an era when radio was just becoming popular, allowing his style to be heard more widely than any of his predecessors. his uniting with bill monroe during the "creation" of bluegrass music is surely a factor in why his style has come to dominate the scene.
every artist tells and retells their story so many times that it becomes a kind of myth. i wouldn't blame earl for perpetuating any myths about his own development. i would venture to say that the history of three finger style has been highly influenced (and perhaps rewritten) by the vast number of people who have used earl's style as the foundation for the way they play music. this is a very interesting phenomenon and the dominance of earl's influence has had a huge effect on the development of banjo music, the discourse around the instrument and the pedagogical approaches out there.
the division of three finger banjo technique into styles, each named after their popularizer, is a curious phenomenon. we live in a time when dividing lines are being bridged and erased every day. many modern banjoists are blurring the lines of technique and integrating all of the so-called styles (melodic, single string and rolls: previously known as keith, reno and scruggs styles). my sincere hope is that we come to see technique in a more fluid and open-minded way, bringing us into better dialogue with other instruments and other pedagogical systems.
that is to say, there are identical arpeggiated techniques (rolls) and alternating string techniques (melodic style) found on many other instruments in many other traditions. much of the technique used to play the ngoni (a west-african banjo ancestor) could be classified as melodic style. classical guitarists are always thinking about when to cross-strings, when to use open strings and when to feature closed-positions. these are musical decisions that employ technique to suit the passage and not over-arching stylistic classes. i bring this up because i believe that three finger banjo players can learn a lot from other musical systems that could help identify which techniques we have developed well, which techniques we have not explored at all and how techniques can be used in service of musical goals rather than using technique as a basis for a so-called style.
whew. sorry for the long post. it's like i've been wanting to get that off my chest for a long time or something....
J
www.jaymestone.com
www.woodhallmusic.com
Edited by - Jayme Stone on 01/02/2009 08:32:19
janolov - Posted - 01/02/2009: 10:22:31
In my opinion Scruggs didn't invent the trhee finger picking. The use of three fingers (thumb, index and middle finger) is documentated back in the 1860's and 1870's. Then it was usually called "guitar style" because it was mostly guitar techniques that were transferred to the banjo. There is also a lot of Old-Time recordings from the 1920's and 1930's where three fingers are used, for example Uncle Dave Macon, Frank Jenkins, Charlie Poole and a lot of others.
However, even if it was three finger, it was not Scruggs style. I think the Scruggs developed the three finger playing and added a lot of new ideas to the playing, so he, without doubt, created a special "Scruggs sound" that had not been heard before. It can be discussed what the new elements were but I think Scruggs was the first to really use the forward roll to play the melody. In the pre-Scruggs recordings the three-finger technique was used mainly for accompanying (for example Charlie Poole) or for a sole instrument (Uncle Dave Macon). Scruggs developed it to a band instrument where the banjo could take both solos and vamping.
Jan-Olov
KevinP - Posted - 01/02/2009: 10:26:05
Yes it's an interesting topic... from what I've been able to find out, the people in the mountains came down to the towns to find work and they merged their clawhammer techniques with those of the town people, who played the classic finger style. It seems from that came the old-time 2 & 3-finger techniques. The idea being that people from different areas merged their styles into new styles. This same kind of process is going on today with people all over the world being more connected by the internet. It will be interesting to see where banjo playing goes in the future.
Kevin
janolov - Posted - 01/03/2009: 08:35:43
Here is a good example of what could be done with trhee fingers around 1900: http://www.archive.org/details/VessLOssman . That was long before Earl was born. Here you can listen to rolls, syncopations, melody runs, one strings runs and so one.
Jan-Olov
justryin2play - Posted - 01/03/2009: 08:58:41
That was great !
Thanks for posting, janolov
DaveInCA - Posted - 01/03/2009: 10:17:21
Jayme said: " oftentimes, a founder (in this case earl) has innumerable influences and synthesizes them into a personal language that fits his or her own disposition, time period and professional situation. earl had a very clear and compelling vision of how to play the banjo with drive, smoothness and versatility for the musical situations that he found himself in at the time. "
I think Jayme is right on the money. It isn't just about 3-finger, it's the entire Earl Scruggs banjo package that knocked everyone out in those days. BB King did the same sort of thing with electric blues---his guitar style expresses all that needs expressing in that type of blues playing.
Dave
corcoran - Posted - 01/03/2009: 10:18:25
Regarding the origins of what we now consider Scruggs style, some years ago I found an article in which Ben Humphries was interviewed. Humphries grew up in Cleveland County, North Carolina, and he quoted a story told to him by Lewis Jolley (apparently an older resident of the area) about Smith Hammett and George Scruggs:
“Smith was a well-known clawhammer banjo picker at the time, during the 'teens and 'twenties. One day a Black man came to the Flint Hill School playing a three-finger picking style on the banjo. Smith asked George Elam Scruggs if he could play that lick on the banjo. George replied, 'No, I don't believe I can.' Smith said, I can't either, but I will.' Within two to three weeks he was playing that three-finger style. He perfected it and taught many people how to play it.”
This does not, IMHO, contradict Earl Scruggs's stellar contributions to the development of the style. It just adds another wrinkle to our consideration of the possible influences on Scruggs himself, if only via Smith Hammett.
Michael
michael.corcoran@usask.ca
rexhunt - Posted - 01/03/2009: 11:43:24
Here is an SS Stewart instructional sheet for the banjo from the late 1800s found at the Library of Congress. It shows which finger to use with which string.
I've heard Charlie Pool was influenced by the recordings of Vess Ossman and Fred VanEps who were very popular recording artists in the late 1800's, early 1900's.
Rex
Ronnie - Posted - 01/05/2009: 05:42:16
Going back several posts, I was surprised that, according to Banjov1, young Earl did not have a record player and a collection of records!! . There was one in almost every home and I sure he would most likely have had access to one at the home of a neighbor or relative. You could adjust the turntable speed on these old spring-wound machines, and in effect have sort of a slow-downer.
He did state in his book that he listened to his banjo mentors on the radio a lot, and went to many live venues where they were playing.
I enjoy listening to the CD set "You Ain't Talkin' to Me" Which features Charlie Poole and several others. . It is devoted entirely to pre-Scruggs 3-finger pickers. I don't own a copy, but one is available at our local library. Mack Woolbright's break on Charley Parker's "The Man Who Wrote Home Sweet Home" (recorded @1928, when Earl was 4 years old) ) sounds a lot like Earl's 1960 "Home Sweet Home." I think Woolbright (BTW he was blind) was one of Earl's greatest childhood influences.
Earl was not the first to play in that style, but he did make it available to a wide audience, so it became known as "Scruggs' Style, just as Bill Keith certainly was not the first melodic picker, but that style became known as "Keith Style." As an example, there are still people out there who believe Henry Ford invented the automobile!!
www.bobbythompsonbanjo.com
Edited by - Ronnie on 01/05/2009 06:12:08
KI4PRK - Posted - 01/05/2009: 07:40:33
quote:
Originally posted by Ronnie
Going back several posts, I was surprised that, according to Banjov1, young Earl did not have a record player and a collection of records!! . There was one in almost every home and I sure he would most likely have had access to one at the home of a neighbor or relative. You could adjust the turntable speed on these old spring-wound machines, and in effect have sort of a slow-downer.
He did state in his book that he listened to his banjo mentors on the radio a lot, and went to many live venues where they were playing.
I enjoy listening to the CD set "You Ain't Talkin' to Me" Which features Charlie Poole and several others. . It is devoted entirely to pre-Scruggs 3-finger pickers. I don't own a copy, but one is available at our local library. Mack Woolbright's break on Charley Parker's "The Man Who Wrote Home Sweet Home" (recorded @1928, when Earl was 4 years old) ) sounds a lot like Earl's 1960 "Home Sweet Home." I think Woolbright (BTW he was blind) was one of Earl's greatest childhood influences.
Earl was not the first to play in that style, but he did make it available to a wide audience, so it became known as "Scruggs' Style, just as Bill Keith certainly was not the first melodic picker, but that style became known as "Keith Style." As an example, there are still people out there who believe Henry Ford invented the automobile!!
www.bobbythompsonbanjo.com
This is great! I think that last paragraph really sums it up. I've heard most of Earl's rolls, even a little "Reno Style" in old time three finger. 3F banjo players certainly weren't stupid, and figured out quite a bit.
Now the thing that amazes me about Earl is just how
smooth he is. I've never heard anybody up until the 60's or so even approaching Earl's smoothness, clarity, and clean picking. Even at high speeds, it's so clean.
The other thing, of course, is Earl's fame. Snuffy Jenkins, Smith Hammet, Wade Ward - none of them were on the Grand Ol' Opry. If you listen to Wade Ward playing Ragtime Annie - using a 3F style - he is almost certainly playing a D tune out of open G, using closed positions, and inside rolls. I heard plenty of influence on, or shared with Earl's fiddle backup.
Again, I wish not to denigrate Earl's influence, picking, or greatness. Just want to give the old-timers a little credit, especially since I'm an old-time 3F picker myself - as well as a Scruggs style, melodic, Reno style BG picker.
73, Brennen
trapdoor2 - Posted - 01/05/2009: 08:04:29
The more I delve into the banjo's history, the more I swing towards the 'natural hand movement' evolution. The human hand gravitates towards three distinct methods of playing the banjo, "down", "up" and "strum" (which is really just a combination).
From the earliest tutors (Briggs, Rice, Buckley, all 1850-1860) we are advised to play solos "down" and to back-up songs "up". That is, you played solos in what we now call "strokestyle" (a proto-clawhammer style) and you "picked" chords (and arpeggiated chords) to support singing. By 1865, we have fully transcribed three-finger solos (F. Converse calls it "guitar style") and by 1868 we have whole volumes dedicated to three-finger style playing (running the gamut from pop to classical).
In the 1880-1890 period, the "guitar style" has almost completely wiped out the older "banjo style" and folks like Vess Ossman and Fred van Eps have hit the infant recording industry as the first 'rock stars'. While repetitive 'rolls' are rare, pattern-picking does exist. One of the big hits of the 1890s, "Whistling Rufus" makes good use of simple repetitive R/H figures and Joe Morley (Brit banjo genius) had some favorite raggy R/H 'licks' he would insert into his works over the chord progression...just as one of today's BG players might do.
None of this degrades the accomplishments of Earl, JD, Reno, Thompson, Keith, et al. It just tells me that there are natural movements that lend themselves to the banjo (three fingers & five strings = whoopee!) and the requirements of the day's music drive genuis to find what works for them.
===Marc
"If banjos needed tone rings, S.S. Stewart would have made them that way."
KLandreth - Posted - 01/05/2009: 08:21:05
Anyone interested in this topic needs to read “Linthead Stomp” by Patrick Huber (UNC Press: http://uncpress.unc.edu/browse/book...itle_id=1544). In his book Huber discusses the fact that around the turn of the 20th century, cotton mill owners in the south (including North Carolina) brought musicians and singing groups to mill towns to play concerts and to give lessons to cotton mill workers. The idea was to make employees (who made next-to-nothing) a happier lot by enriching their pre-existing interest in music. VanEps played concerts and gave banjo lessons to cotton mill workers in NC mill towns in the early part of the century.
Now tell me again where “Scruggs style” came from....
Edited by - KLandreth on 01/05/2009 08:24:22
